Natalya Eremenko: "Breathe and follow love!"

I know the heroine of our interview for a long time. Initially we were in friends on Facebook, I read its posts, sometimes commented. In one the moment, important for me, Natasha extended to me the metaphorical card which so turned out about my state and the events around that I was assured that Natasha is a magician. Later I passed also group occupations with Natasha, and individual; and now I want to acquaint readers of wowcharm with it: expert, mother, wife, kotovladelitsy; the gestalt therapist, with the strong and gentle woman, with female space. I had to edit our conversation, reducing words to readable volumes - so deep there were subjects. So, I am glad to present you Natalya Eremenko, the gestalt therapist. Natalya finished MGI of E.R. Dashkova, Integrative institute a training Gestalt.

- Natasha, hi! I will begin with a question which interests me long ago: did you work as the head of department of staff recruitment in the large company how it happened what you decided to replace considerably a field of activity whether it was heavy what pushed you to it whether it was terrible to change life?

- Well, first, change of activity was not such radical, and, secondly, I very strongly was afraid.
I had a wide administrative experience by that moment, and I had a choice where to go further. Then I took consultation from one famous coach who told that I have this year a lot of energy, any choice will be successful.
I had an option to buy own business, but I was afraid at that moment it was so terrible to go to personal work, to personal consultation, and me that I, probably, did not give myself in it the report. And I went to business – the co-owner and the CEO, it was the delivery service of food baskets with recipes from chefs. I thought that I will be able to remain sitting on two chairs – both to work and to advise clients – I gradually increased base and advised already then. I advised, but did not leave there on a postoyanka because there were obligations – a mortgage, the credits, the child, and to me it was terrible that there will be no constant stable income. At some point I understood that I burned out, even not in zero, and in minus, I had a heavy nervous breakdown. Then I made the decision that I will close business, to be restored and to be engaged only in private practice. That is, I have from the Universe very interesting relations, it showed me that the choice is and – but having accepted it, I was restored very long.

- It is possible to tell that your decision was made through crisis, through a certain turning point, it was not born exactly and consistently, and appeared when you were at a certain end of the resources of a non-return?

- Yes, I made a choice, and it was wrong, I did not calculate the forces. The matter is that in 34 years already limited resource, it is also impossible to live as earlier. If from 20 years I constantly studied, worked; in 19 years I gave birth to the daughter, and my life was very intensive, in 34 years I had no such resource any more and there was a burning out. And I went not for the purpose, and behind the ambitions – I needed to prove someone something that I can – and myself too. And it was necessary to face that I cannot – that in general there is that I cannot. Also it was necessary to begin to appreciate that I can.

- I not just like that asked about crisis because there is an opinion that crises – it is bad. Crisis as it seems to me, is a turning point when the person understands that as was earlier, he cannot be any more – for various reasons, and very many decisions, including, fatal, people accept through crisis. Optional it has to be crisis in negative sense, is not present – crisis as a certain regeneration, perhaps. If you realize that as was, such as you were, cannot be any more, you undertake something and go further already another.

- Yes, for me crisis – it is definitely not bad, it can be heavy, difficult; because crisis always bares, finds a lot of things; it pulls down old. What you leaned earlier on, is not a support any more. Also it is necessary to look for new support – and they precisely are. That is, crisis always about the fact that there is something else what you can lean on. To you maybe it is unusual, and it is terrible, but habitual already definitely does not work. And as was, it is already impossible. And you begin to look for new.


- That is, it turns out, crisis can be more painful, but also more motivating, than some quiet development, slow and gradual? When the person sits and quietly estimates that he could change – in crisis of people can be at peak, making active the resources; gathering morally and physically, frankly, without skin?

- Crises are different, and take place differently. In my case, for example, I had not to strain, and just to study to relax and trust. In my case I had to learn to release control, to lean on a body, but not on the head, to feel the body, to wonder what I want. To follow not an impulse, and to give itself a pause, time, to be with itself more honest. Well, if to say that there is an evolutionary way and revolutionary, at me was evolutionary. There are adaptation crises, there are crises teenage, each age has a crisis, all of us undergo crises from the birth. Everything is very individual.

- Everything is very individual and. Tell how you choose tools for work – you work with very many practicians, and gestalt therapy; and left-handed drawings, your author's technique exist meditative practicians, also, and you work with IAC (metaphorical associative cards, an editor's note). What are you guided at this or that moment by not to follow templates?

- Different people. And what works with one person can be absolutely non-working with another. To work on one techniques with all is how to try to pull an owl on the globe. Different people. I know that I different during the different periods. I tried a lot of things personally on myself, something works, something does not work. It is important to me to understand when I look at the client what way for it will be optimum, eco-friendly; because work psychological it enough inconveniently in itself. It is difficult to be honest with itself, to answer questions, and, of course, I try in this plan to get a response from the client, to find the moment in which it will be good.

- And tell, please, about metaphorical cards – what is it? I know that many people have a relation to IAC quite specific – something like an entertaining element, like a solitaire or guessing. Especially in social networks where it is possible to meet the proposal of the expert to pull out the card of day, for example, very difficult to treat it not as to guessing, you know, "loves - does not love".

— It is my favourite subject. You know, good fortunetellers always read out the answer from you. Do the translation – putting in words, telling words about what the client tells a body. Here you speak – "loves - does not love", and I kind of can see, you want to hear what he loves or what he does not love? And another – in what you believe – that he loves you, or in the fact that he does not love you. And further it is possible to attract any history.
Metaphorical cards are not the pop instrument, not an element of entertainment. Metaphorical cards work only if the person himself answers a question. If he looks for the metaphors and deciphers them. The metaphor is language unconscious.
All of us read fairy tales. These are metaphors. So us adapted to life, so acquainted us with a social group, with an occupation layer, with historical heritage, so taught us to wisdom – heroes often were in difficult situations, and something helped them, something did not help, heroes underwent transformations everywhere. Our parents by means of fairy tales helped us to pass difficult stages of those crises, and by means of metaphors to find answers. And so works still that with metaphors it is easier for us to find the truth. And not to interpret the main thing at once, and to sate a metaphor, to speak with it. Full consultation of IAC lasts 40-50 minutes. Both itself cannot make full massage – and it is impossible to interpret fully results of IAC without conductor. You can help yourself, having skills, by means of the metaphorical card, but the matter is that our consciousness likes "to take away" - to the person heavy to be honest with itself. And the IAC just very softly and very carefully allows to see a story about itself. Not about others, and how I live in life.

- Besides IAC, you use meditations, the meditative practicians helping to come into contact with a body, to reunite itself that in general is very important for the person coming to therapy though, probably, for many will seem that meditation is or yoga, or about east practicians in general. How do meditations in therapy work?

- Really there is a lot of meditations, they work at very different level. Their variety is as high as a variety of the directions in psychotherapy is high.
There are meditations for calm of mind when we learn to cultivate the internal observer when we learn to observe ourselves and the thoughts. As a rule, they static – breath, a convenient pose, the account.
There are meditations dynamic – removal of tension, study of corporal blocks, women's meditations on relaxation of muscles of a pelvic bottom. Meditations work at deep levels of a body, energy, mentality and mind.

If the person says that he does not suit meditations, so he did not find the. And it is very important that the person told what he wants from meditation. And then the professional who practices many years will pick up what suits you. And then it is possible to try other practicians.
When the person does something new, as a rule, it is discomfort. Because all system is built anew. To go to new is to accept that is so possible, it is possible new. People are afraid new because they are afraid there is nobody sense of guilt – why I did not make it earlier. And it is important to hold focus that time I did not do it earlier, so it was inaccessible to me, something did not ripen to this step inside. I do today and it is good.


- Natash, you often speak "breathe" during the occupations. Why we forbid ourselves to breathe at some moments. We fade. It is the ban on life?

- The simplest explanation – at the time of a reaction stress: stand, run, attack. The person chooses to stand, pretend to be the dead, not to breathe. The person does not realize that he does not survive, and lives. It is an indicator that the person is in a stress. It is the strategy of many travmatik. We know that post-traumatic frustration is descended, and now we receive that all of us are children of post-war generation, post-war space. In each family someone suffered from wars. And, though before such concept as post-traumatic frustration was not, travmatizirovano all generation.

- Now began to tell much about it and to try to leave in many respects from those methods of education which were applied to us. Began to understand that physical abuse over children – it is bad. But with what to begin?

- Understanding is important. Now the hygiene of injuries is important. It was not told about many injuries, it was the norm. Therefore the person grew in it. Therefore funds of the help to the women affected by family violence are so necessary. The woman will not be able to get out from there – if she grew in family where she is beaten, and now she is beaten by the husband, for it it is a habitual picture of the world.
That horror with which there lived our grandmothers and grandfathers could not be experienced often therefore there is such variety of protection and bans – on emotion, including.

- The ban on emotions – a familiar subject. I personally was helped in due time by group therapy, such circle of supporters, support group which there is a lot of in Network now, to what a certain permission and acceptance – my emotions, feelings, fears gave me. Not I bad, I am just living. It is, probably, a certain phenomenon of our time – would seem, you come to online community of people whom you do not know at all, do not see, and you are not condemned, you are accepted, you are seen.

- Online therapy - in general history quite new, and it will be developed, especially in the conditions of the pandemic which showed our opportunities. In it there are also pluses, there are also minuses. When you get up, put on, go to the therapist - it is personal responsibility. Online you do not take actions, you do not get up on legs, do not go, all near at hand. Personal responsibility – it is very important. In offline it works better, more qualitatively.

- In therapy for me the question "How You Today What You Feel?" was very heavy. Because I always norms, always ok as can be differently. Otherwise – it is already deeper and more terrible.

- People do not know that they feel at the moment. My therapist does an ingenious thing: you do not know how you – well, go home. It is important to transfer to the client responsibility. You came – or you work, or not. The therapist cannot feel, look for for you your feelings.
It is terrible, it is difficult, it not for all. It is besides personal responsibility. If the therapist does not approach, the method – now is so much options: corporal therapy, meditations, vipassana, contact improvisation. If there is pain, it can be made another, to worry differently. If the person lives and feels normally, its close to him is normal, then therapy also is not necessary. Means, the mentality and a body cope.

- You have the blog, in Facebook and Instagram which very much differs from blogs by many therapists. You write much, write openly, sincerely, write about personal, often painful. The reader sees that you live, the living person. But it is not terrible to open to the subscribers from this party?

- If I tell that not terribly, probably, I will be dishonest. There is a certain level of discomfort, it is transferable. I never write about what at me is not fulfilled. Everything that I write, it already otterapevtirovano. I do not ask for help of audience. I show how I had it and as I solved it. I was there – and it terapevtichno for readers. But my audience - not my therapist. I 12 years in personal therapy. And I do not stop this way, and I will hardly stop. I am itself, my body, my breath – the tool and to go to personal therapy and to a superviziya – skill and discipline.

- There are cases when the person comes to therapy, fulfills with the therapist, and history comes to the end?

- I will tell an unpopular thing – being a traumatic gun does not happen. It is very deep subject. I recommend to support myself at least by courses of times in half a year. Not to fail in injuries again. The mentality reproduces traumatic stories. We can fulfill, work, allow ourselves new life, but at each level when the stress raises, the high probability to fail in a habitual pattern, in a trauma again.

- There is an opinion that women come to therapy more often. Including work on the relations. Whether so it?

- I will destroy this myth, 40% of my clients – men. Everything changes, and we live in this unique time. Men more often come with inquiry to some self-development, with requests for work, career, but face that everything is interconnected. Men just work the inquiries and go further, are not in therapy of 10 years. Many men realize dependence, and want to work it. About the relations the inquiry is more rare, but also it abruptly - men afford it, began to allow.

- Do you have some wish for our readers, a certain council, a parting word?

- Follow love. Behind heat. These are such markers which allow to dive on depths. I make the decision, to me is warm from it, or is cold, and I contract? Something heats me or not? Follow the love, heat, breath and expansion.